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Saturday, May 27, 2006

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Marshall

It kind of seems like, in the paridigm you present, that "normal" is some kind of white 50's patriarchy. You know the 50's? When negroes knew their place; and so did women for that matter. Yuck.

In this model, the problem with the Democrat Party, is that they represent the minorities, weaklings, and losers.

In a lot of ways you are right about how this is how the choice is branded by the Republicans, but I would be careful about perpetuating stereotypes about what's "normal", and the "good old days" before the sixties and "change".

Jack Whelan

Marshall--

I think you're misunderstanding my point. It's not about perpetuating anything; it's about describing how people do in fact think. I have no nostalgia for normal, but it's a reality that is shaping the way the game is being played. Just saying that it's stupid or stereotypical that people think that way doesn't change the fact that they do.

Most normal people need to feel a sense of order and comfort, and until the Dems come up with a better way of presenting it, the Republicans are the comfort party. They understand how to play that game and the Dems have not yet figured it out, and I don't know if they can.

Their attempts to play the normal game have been pathetic and transparent. Remember Kerry's hunting expedition. And now look at how Hillary is inauthentic pandering. It's just so obvious that what is normal to normal America is not normal to Dems. Everybody seems to get that except the Dems themselves.

As has been pointed out here before, it's the Republicans who realize how stupid and gullible the American stereotypical way of thinking is. They are the ones who have the real disdain for normal Americans and for the Democratic process. But they are the ones who have been winning more consistently at the ballot box because they are more cynical than Dems who think that reasoned discourse still has a place in the political process.

Mike McG...

Seems to me that the sort of disenchanted folks that Jack describes are exquisitely sensitive to the disdain for them held by influential Democratic players. Actually, I think Marshall did a good job describing a prevalent caricature of their sensibilities even if he does buy into it. Their response to the 'yuck' caricature with which they're tarred: vote Republican.

I regret their decision. I regret that they don't catch on to the more subtle contempt in which they are held by Republican players. Until we learn that they will not be reduced to their economic interests (contra Tom Frank) and we come to understand their cultural sensibilities, we will continue to lose their crucial votes.

Matt Zemek

Mike McG:

It's not disdain. It's a tone-deafness mixed with timidity. Democrats are guilty of trying to play the traditional political money game along with the Republicans, which makes any "normal" policies and positions in support of the lower-middle class suddenly hollow and/or hypocritical on the surface. That's the timidity.

The tone-deafness is found in a paralyzing inability to talk seamlessly and (see Hillary here) naturally about faith, values and principle in ways that Mr. and Mrs. Normal can identify with. Hillary and, in the House, Nancy Pelosi represent the big-money elitism (combined with naked pandering) that instantly turns off voters. What's so tragic about those two figures, though, is that they really aren't terribly liberal to begin with, yet are branded with that word anyway.

I keep waiting for the Democrats to do a lot more retail, on-the-ground politics. It sounds cliche or way too obvious (or both), but Democrats have to connect with individuals and get out of their Beltway location (and Beltway M.O.) if they really want to create a seismic shift in the political landscape.

Think Russ Feingold's ethics and virtue combined with John McCain's straight-talk patina in a real person unafraid to talk about faith as a driving force in one's personal and political experiences. That is the kind of candidate the Dems should be producing/seeking, but aren't.

Hillary's attempts to "talk values" are incredibly painful to watch, and her corporate whoring with Rupert only exposes her very phoniness all the more.

But to re-emphasize the conclusion, it's not disdain the Dems are showing. It's tone-deafness and timidity, which only come about when one is out of touch with the people and too drunk on money and power.

Ironic, isn't it, that the very hunger for power held by the Dems is what's keeping them from having power in the first place. People see the Republicans as genuinely motivated and passionate as protectors of the American people, while the Dems are seen as chameleon-like shifting opportunists without backbone or vision. In truth, the Dems--while hardly covered in dust and glory--represent a much more fundamental path toward some degree of safety and stability for America, but they're so tone-deaf that they don't know how to let Americans see as much. They talk at or past Americans, while Republicans know how to push people's buttons and choose the right images.

Jack Whelan

I think Mike and Matt are both right. The tone deafness comes from a sense of being "more evolved", and it's this that traditional normal people pick up on and makes them want to puke. But it's this smug sense that they are more evolved that leads them to be tone deaf to the values and concerns of those whom they left behind.

I think that the cosmopolitan attitudes of the cultural left are more adaptive than the rigid traditionalist attitudes, and yet I would be a traditionalist if a "living" tradition had survived. I've written a lot about the zombie traditionalism that is the mode of the cultural right at this time. It's not healthful to be a zombie traditionalist, but the challenge is not to indulge in a feeling of disdain for them, but to understand what they need (overcome the tonedeafness) and to find a more healthful way to provide it. Both parties are failing miserably to meet this challenge.

Marshall

Is it really just a "sense of being more evolved" or is it actually being more evolved? I think that's a fair question when you consider things like civil rights, equal rights for women, environmental regulations, social safety nets, etc. It seems to me that the Democrat Party, for all it's faults, represents a progressive movement. The Republicans on the other hand are of course overwhelmingly regressive, not to mention repressive and hypocritical.

Jack Whelan

Marshall-- It's not just about the issues. It's about the underlying attitude, and I'm as guilty of it as any one every time I want to call people who voted for Bush morons because they were stupid enough to be conned by GOP propaganda. I try not to say it, but I'm thinking it, and I'm trying to understand why because I'm so angry at them because witting or unwitting they have enabled policies that are so destructive.

So that's the challenge--to speak the truth about what's really happening, but not in a controlled, respectful way that avoids making people feel stupid for being conned. I think it starts with separating the people from the political leaders they have supported and to reveal these leaders for what they are.

All but a third of the country seems open to seeing these thugs for what they are, but the problem is that there is no alternative for them to turn to. They might see that their GOP leaders are corrupt, incompetent hypocrites, but they think the Dems are worse. And the Dems are largely responsible for their credibility problems in this regard. And it makes them powerless and ineffectual to exploit the amazing opportunity the GOP is now giving them.

Mike's point is that traditionalist types are unlikely to turn to the Dems because they feel that they are not respected by them. Matt's point is that it comes so natural to liberals to condescend to the traditionalist, they don't even know they are doing it. That's the cause of the tone deafness--liberals don't realize how their smugness causes a resentment-driven backlash by people who feel confused, insecure, and anxious because the world doesn't reflect the way they were brought up to understand it. They don't see Liberals as offering a solution--they see them as the problem.

The challenge therefore for liberals is to understand that their solutions, insofar as they are perceived as part of a values matrix that traditionalists feel allergic to, will never gain any traction with them. That's what I mean by saying that the Dems have to change the fundamental narrative. I'm not saying that they pander to traditionalists, but they have to understand traditionalist anxieties and to understand why they have good reason to find liberal democrats so nauseating. And then they have to find the common ground, which is the striving for a just society in which we're all in this together. Isn't that what we all want, principled liberals and principled traditionalists alike?

P.S. Check out this piece by Paul Waldman here: http://gadflyer.com/flytrap/index.php?Week=200621#2746
I think Waldman is right to a certain. It's about adults speaking to one another as adults. It's not about pandering nor is it about condescending, of course. But at a certain level it's about the underlying values matrix.

Matt Zemek

Marshall,

Are the Dems really an authentic progressive movement?

If they want to win the people who SHOULD vote for them based on their economic fortunes--the people Thomas Frank looks at in his important political book, "WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH KANSAS?"--they need to do so with actions that are so courageous and bold as to make their virtues unmistakably clear and visible to everyone.

Democrats need to forsake corporate money, run candidates who have conviction, pay personally for flights and meals (and show people that they are footing the bill themselves, not taxpayers), not denigrate their opposition, and do a truckload of retail politics.

They don't do these things now.

Hillary? Pelosi? DNC wonks?

These people are out of touch. If they'd only have the guts to first admit that they don't have the gut-level trust or respect of most Americans, and then make radical actions that, deep down, really do square with people's values (across ideological spectra; it's within the worldview of Dems to do this, but not their political subculture), they won't win.

Dems have to make strong and very intimate connections with voters on the ground--connections so strong that no MSM wurlitzer or meme can disrupt it.

If Dems go outside the box, they'll find themselves inside the winner's circle. They need to risk big in order to reap the rewards. Safe, conventional Bob Shrum, consultant-based crap won't do it.

The Dems aren't a movement; they need to become one.

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