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Monday, April 14, 2008

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Comments

Matt Zemek

What's getting lost in all this is the absolutely asinine, sophomoric, and ridiculously phony way in which Hillary is reacting to and pouncing on this situation.

Absolutely embarrassing.

This is why our Republic is dying, if not already dead.

Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Adams, Franklin, Henry, Paine, and all the rest have to be rolling over in their graves.

We need to find a way to engage in meaningful political/social activity in the attempt to revive our Republic and improve the lot of those who are being left behind while Clinton (and Obama) consume hundreds of millions of additional dollars so they can act like fools and argue over semantics over many months.

Mike McG...

Matt:

Point taken and endorsed.

This episode could be an enormously valuable 'teaching moment' about our common human frailties, our shared struggle to talk both honestly and sensitively about what we believe, and our need for both the reconciling touch and the prophetic word. I'm certain that Obama has this speech within him but I'm not at all at all sanguine about how all of this will play out. The San Francisco comments offer too 'rich' a sound bite for Obama's opponents, both within and outside the Democratic party, to overlook.

And no question: Hillary Clinton needs to be called out on her shameless exploitation of this situation. She may well be overreaching.

Jack Whelan

Herbert: The various groups, ethnic and otherwise, are not interested in being characterized. They’re interested in being led.

I understand what Herbert is saying, but the reality is that you have to do both. In order to lead you have to understand the shared attitudes of the people you hope will follow you, and understanding requires that you "characterize" those attitudes. He was also "characterizing" the attitudes of urban black youth. Nobody's making a big deal about that. Bottom line: There is nothing wrong with this effort to characterize if it's in the service of trying to understand. It becomes a problem only insofar as it makes one vulnerable to be mis-"characterized" by one's opponents. Mischaracterization is the problem, not characterization.

Does anybody who has read fuller accounts of Obama's S.F. remarks believe he was mischaracterizing the shared attitudes of many blue-collar Pennsylvanians? You can focus on two or three words that were ill chosen, but this was not a prepared speech. He was thinking on his feet, and the thrust of what he was saying was thoughtful, sympathetic, and quite frankly impressive from a politician. So his opponents can make hay with a few words, but that doesn't mean that they are even close to being right in their characterization of their intent-- ie that they reveal Obama's true colors as a condescending elitist.

forestwalker

Jack,
Not arguing against what was said or Obama's overall analysis so much. Just, practically, emotionally, care obviously has to be taken. Imagine McCain accidentally saying 'Negro' in an off-the-cuff remark; even if he's talking sense at the time, the emotional reaction and suspicion the word would generate, however irrational, are unavoidable. Sensitivity is required when talking to or about a group that perceives you as an outsider and potential enemy.

I hope Obama talks much more about class in the future and finds a way to speak about it that resonates with more of those hurt by the system. Even better, it would be nice if he could garner enough trust to lead them in examining some of the very bad political assumptions they now hold.

Jack Whelan

FW--

I know what you're driving at, but I just don't agree. I don't want to just be stubbornly argumentative here, but I really feel as though I'm in a carnival house of mirrors here. It's about retaining a sense of correct proportionality.

Do you really think the words "bitter" or "cling" rise to the kind of charged meanings associated with "negro" or "colored"? Do Obama's word really betray condescension in the same way those other words connote residual racism?

Obama is a black man raised by a middle-income single mother. How does elitism tag possibly stick to him? When did talking like a well informed, well-educated thoughtful human being start being considered elitist? McCain is a white Republican who voted against the Martin Luther King holiday, and if he were to use certain racially loaded words it should have far more significant impact.

Context is everything, and the only context in which Obama's words are controversial is in the contrived and distorted world of political gotcha.

Until I see evidence to the contrary, it seems to me the people most offended by these comments are everybody but the people Obama was talking about. See here for a guy who I think has the proportion right. The white guy isn't even voting for Obama: http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/04/13/foxnews-rural-pennsylvanians-find-little-to-argue-with-barack-obama/

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